Shining One

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Posts by Shining One

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  94

  The Skeptic's Worst Nightmare (S)

  by Shining One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  check some of this out and you may see why there are two sides to the issues that are portrayed as so one sided here.

  you will immediately smell the b.s.

  emanating from the skeptic's book of bible stories!

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  Shining One

  Check some of this out and you may see why there are two sides to the issues that are portrayed as so one sided here. You will immediately smell the B.S. emanating from the Skeptic's Book of Bible Stories!
  
  http://www.apocalipsis.org/difficulties.htm
  Nightmare number one:
  Skeptic's Instructions for Reading the Bible:
  
  * Always read it completely literally in isolation and never take into account the social, historical, literary and cultural context in which it was written.
  * Have a wrong concept of how God should have done things and then throw the rattle out of the pram when he does things differently - this is otherwise known as setting up a straw man and then knocking him down.
  * Assume that God dictated it rather than using men in the social, historical and cultural context of the day.
  * If there is a difficult passage never consult a commentary written by someone who understands the social, historical, literary and cultural context.
  * Never compare scripture with scripture to find the meaning of difficult texts
  * Never use different bible versions, never check out the Greek or Hebrew.
  * Always assume that if you cannot understand something then it cannot ever be true.
  * Ignore the fact of progressive revelation
  * Never try to understand the human-divine nature of Jesus or the Trinity, never consult a theologian who can explain these difficult things.
  
  Here is C Dennis McKinsey's advice to the bible critic "Avoid Christian commentaries. Don't be swayed as to what is being said or what commentators allege is intended. Just read it cold." Encyclopedia of Biblical Errancy p. 500.
  
  Nightmare number 2:
  
  Mistakes the critics make by Norman Geisler.
  
  Norman Geisler in 'When Critics Ask' says: The Bible is without mistake, but the critics are not. All their allegations of error in the Bible are based on some error of their own. Their mistakes fall into the following main categories.
  
  1. Assuming that the unexplained is not explainable
  2. Presuming the Bible guilty until proven innocent
  3. Confusing our fallible interpretations with God's infallible revelation
  4. Failing to understand the context of the passage.
  5. Neglecting to interpret difficult passages in the light of clear ones
  6. Basing a teaching on an obscure passage
  7. Forgetting that the Bible is a human book with human characteristics
  8. Assuming that a partial report is a false report
  9. Demanding that NT citations of the OT always be exact quotations
  10. Assuming that divergent accounts are false ones
  11. Presuming that the Bible approves of all its records
  12. Forgetting that the Bible uses non-technical, everyday language
  13. Assuming that round numbers are false
  14. Neglecting to note that the bible uses different literary devices
  15. Forgetting that only the original text, not every copy of scripture, is without error
  16. Confusing general statements with universal ones
  17. Forgetting that latter revelation supersedes previous revelation
  
  Nightmare number 3
  Links
  
  First, the three largest sites answering bible difficulties
  
  1. Tekton Apologetics Ministries Inc- J P Holding - one of the best and larger sites out there, and the guy has a sense of humour, much needed if you are debating the critics who take themselves so seriously. He also refutes the book 'Encyclopedia of Biblical Errancy' (EBE) by C Dennis McKinsey.
  2. Christian Thinktank - Glenn Miller (see Tough Questions:) see also Reasons some people give for not approaching Jesus Christ for a personal relationship: . This is a very good site for long answers to tough questions.
  3. Bible Contradictions - CARM large number of difficulties answered
  
  An interesting site by an ex-atheist
  
  Nightmare number four: a partial list of books for skeptics to IGNORE. LOL
  
  Rex
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  15

  Where to Start?

  by theundecided2004 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hey yall,.

  i'm an inactive jw that wants to begin my critical study of this religion and make a comparison between this faith and mainstream christianity.

  in addition to catching the wtbts in its lies, changing doctrines, and stuff critical to leaving the faith, i also want to get a historical perspective on everything.

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  Shining One

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/95102/2.ashx
  
  My story is on the post I made in reply to Dave, thread "Explaning the hateful passages of the Bible". I can show you the differences between the JW, Catholic and Evangelical Protestant communities. Please do e-mail me.
  
  Rex
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  9

  Debunking the Bible skeptics and Liberal Theologians

  by Rex in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  recommended reading for christians who want to debunk the alleged 'facts' and claims of the naturalist element: .

  archer, gleason l., enclyclopedia of bible difficulties, zondervan 1982 .

  brauch, manfred t., the hard sayings of paul, intervarsity 1989 .

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  Shining One

  Hey Steve,
  
  You'll have to copy and paste the link. It is on the topic of "explaining the hateful passages fo the Bible".
  
  Rex
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  9

  Debunking the Bible skeptics and Liberal Theologians

  by Rex in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  recommended reading for christians who want to debunk the alleged 'facts' and claims of the naturalist element: .

  archer, gleason l., enclyclopedia of bible difficulties, zondervan 1982 .

  brauch, manfred t., the hard sayings of paul, intervarsity 1989 .

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  Shining One

  Steven,
  I hope I have this link correct. I copied and pasted it from a answer to Dave on another topic. Feel free to e-mail me directly as well.
  
  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/95102/2.ashx
  
  Rex
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  39

  Explaining the hateful passages of the Bible

  by Rex in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here is a link to an author whose books may help you:

  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/0060762055/ref=ase_agoramedia-20/103-0623759-2877415

  bishop shelby spong is of well repute in liberal theological circles.

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  Shining One

  Hi Dave,
  Thank you for the kind questions. I will try to share my thoughts...
  
  >Who exactly is the “you” that you are referring to when you say this is something that may “help you?”
  
  Any other human being that reads this.
  
  >Why do you think any of us need any help?
  
  I see the hurt and I have been there. I am like a prisoner who has been set free and I am trying to share my freedom in a personal way.
  
  >Is it because you are having such a hard time getting your personal views accepted? Is it so important to you that you need find people on this board to agree with you for you to fully accept your own views?
  
  I don't have to be here obviously but I come from the same stark and souless religion that abused many here. I can see the pain in the angry denuciations of me and my views.
  
  >Why is it you feel everyone needs help to align there thinking to fit a particular narrow focus?
  
  My Lord tells me that the road to eternal life is a cramped and narrow way. I choose to travel it because I have heard His voice and recognize my shepherd.
  
  >Who is it you ae trying to convince (besides yourself) that any or all religious myth has any historical or archeological validity that makes a difference in anyone’s life today (again, besides yourself)?
  
  I simply want to share the living water that I have imbibed. I care about people, so much that I don't really mind being called and thought of as a fool. I am the chief of all sinners and I am no better than any here. My Lord calls me to the ministry of reconciliation.
  
  >There is more to a specific religion than it’s most recognized and best selling book of rules and stories.
  
  Absolutely, God is a more than a book can contain. The Book is there for a purpose: to explain the story of a savior who died 2000 years ago that you and I might choose life.
  
  >Every religion has a historical past that reveals more about itself than an age old hand me down book of myth. You are limiting yourself by only relying on a specific book without studying where that book, its many stories, and the religion it is trying to sell, comes from. Have you studied the where, how and when in the many ancient religions that have given religious history (including the Christian religion) the incredible similarities they all share? Is your focus only limited to the bible or have you ever been interested in finding out where the bible originally got some of its mythical and mystical stories?
  
  Ah, the similiarities are part of the whole picture. It all goes back to Genesis and that's one of the reasons it is so fascinating. A Savior was prophecied and lo and behold, He did come! Monotheism was at the root of ancient pagan beliefs, flood stories abound in far flung cultures, from the middle east, to the native Americans, the Aboriginal people of Australia and the list goes on.
  I have indeed studied the liberal, moderate and conservative views of scripture. Like anyone else I do need to see what it means to me. Some are betting their life and eternity on the limited reasoning and logic of man.
  I can't make the assumption that the various naturalist theories are more believable and reliable than scripture. You see the results of mankind living apart from God. It is in the news every day, 24/7. Scientific theory is in constant change. The critisism of scripture by the self styled 'theologians' who start with the naturalist premise are not neutral or unbiased. The fact is, these ones who explain the remarkable prophecies away are the ones in delusion.
  
  >In the past few days you seem to be searching for some validation in your own beliefs. You mentioned in another thread of yours that you are teaching your students “how to think”, and not “what to think”. Your posts in the last couple of days seem to show that statement to be untrue. I’m sure you think, based on your own perception of yourself, that that is what you are doing. Your persistence in re-hashing the same line of thought shows it is specific agenda orientated. Any teacher worth their teaching credentials who really wants to teach their students “how to think” will never do that when the subject matter being taught is obviously slanted, by the teacher, to one specific point of view. You are not teaching your students (or any of us) “how to think” but in reality, “how to think like you”. Don’t you think the majority of people here on JWD have had enough of that in their lives?
  
  I have truly given a wrong perception by my wording and that is common with this type of communication. You see what I wrote above about sharing with people what the Lord has done for me and others through a personal relationship. I am an evangelist, pure and simple. Let that be clear.
  
  >What are you trying to accomplish here? What specific outcome are you hoping to get by making the posts you have made in the past few days?
  
  You surely remember the blind man from the Book of John, chapter nine? Read it and see what the Word says to you. Here was a man born blind for no reason other than to reveal God to others. This happened at the point in his life when Jesus Christ would meet him. A divine appointment. The man is healed by the Lord and his eyes are opened, yet his part was to go and wash in the pool of Siloam.
  His eyes, blind from birth, were regenerated (and we with our science have no idea how the brain and eyes communicate to cause sight to exist). However, the man got somehing much more important: he got spiritual sight as evidenced by his defiance of the Jews, then he worshipped Jesus!
  Each one of us is born blind and when Jesus "opens the eyes of our hearts", we receive spiritual sight. We become born again as a new creation. I myself cried out to God when I finally realized the Watchtower deception and the deception of the world at large. I told God that 'I had no idea what truth was and that if He was really there, I needed to see Him revealed'! He did so and I can never look back. The arguments of the naysayers and skeptics roll off my back like 'water off a duck'.
  Jesus came along at the perfect time in history. He is the one remembered today because of that sacred book. It tells of the events leading up to and after His advent. I am only one of the millions who give testimony of how they have had the experience that changes life!
  
  Take care,
  Rex
• 
  39

  Explaining the hateful passages of the Bible

  by Rex in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here is a link to an author whose books may help you:

  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/0060762055/ref=ase_agoramedia-20/103-0623759-2877415

  bishop shelby spong is of well repute in liberal theological circles.

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  Shining One

  Hi Tetly,
  I do appreciate the reasonable tone you have in this post....
  
  >i am an empiricist, and think that there is sound logical reason to believe that morals do not exist outside of ourselves, but that we create morals. one only need to look to nature to see that nature is indifferent to our survival, and to notice that it is only we who label that as uncaring and cold.
  as for where i get my morals. i get them from the same place that the bible writers got their morals from. from within ourselves. from others, from society looking for safety. i look around and realize that something must be done about all the crap in the world. the difference is that i don't think anyone is going to be burning in hell for any bad things they do. and that bad things happen to good people for no other reason than there is no god watching out for them. this inspires a more humanistic approach to the problems in the world, and my own problems.
  
  My friend, please reference some of the books i have suggested. The problem of evil is a struggle for any and all compasionate persons. BTW, your morals are what you have been taught or acquired through life until you reach the very basis for all morals. That is inherent, it is part of you as a special creation of God and if He programmed so many of us to feel empathy and sympathy it must be a solid part of His nature.
  Christians follow Christ, His lifestyle and example, even more than His teachings. That is one of the things that makes Him so unique! May the Lord of Glory bless you with His touch.
  
  Rex
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  7

  Your flavor of creationism? Two types here to begin with...

  by Shining One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  if yec is your flavor of creation belief, you will find much to investigate here: .

  http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=news&action=view&id=9 .

  if oec is your flavor of creation belief, you will find much to insvestigate here: .

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  Shining One

  Rex B13? By jove, I think you've got it right! Thanks much Mr. Satanus.
  
  Shining One
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  7

  Your flavor of creationism? Two types here to begin with...

  by Shining One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  if yec is your flavor of creation belief, you will find much to investigate here: .

  http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=news&action=view&id=9 .

  if oec is your flavor of creation belief, you will find much to insvestigate here: .

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  Shining One

  Satanus,
  I was on the board that existed before this one as Worldly Witness. It was served out of Australia and died a few years ago. My old handle on here was Shining One and the last time I posted was in 2000. I probably have been on since then (as Rex) but have not been consistent since my original exit from the Watchtower. I've got 'other fish to fry' so to speak.
  Shining One
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  7

  Your flavor of creationism? Two types here to begin with...

  by Shining One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  if yec is your flavor of creation belief, you will find much to investigate here: .

  http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=news&action=view&id=9 .

  if oec is your flavor of creation belief, you will find much to insvestigate here: .

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  Shining One

  Here we have a contrary view to the OEC contingent, along with some Geological evidence for a worldwide flood.
  
  Shining One
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  7

  Your flavor of creationism? Two types here to begin with...

  by Shining One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  if yec is your flavor of creation belief, you will find much to investigate here: .

  http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=news&action=view&id=9 .

  if oec is your flavor of creation belief, you will find much to insvestigate here: .

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  Shining One

  Here is some more info on two types of creationism, as well as a localized versus global flood event.
  
  http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/unicorns.html
  
  This one disputes YEC for OEC and also contends the Flood of Noah was regional and not global:
  
  http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/creation.html
  
  Psalm 104 evidence regardign the question of a global or localized flood.
  
  http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/psalm104.html
  
  Shining One